E and I are two therapy sessions in. I must say that I think the therapist is really good, I may not like everything that she says but I do think she does a good job of sifting through our b.s. and getting down to the point and often also the affect associated with the point.
The bulk of our sessions have focused on the ways in which we have both checked out. E has been on the computer too much, it has been too hard to get his time and attention. I have tried to determine if this was always there, predating IF. But, seeing how our IF battle has now dragged on nearly 5 years, it is so hard to remember anymore and our time post-TTC by far outdates the time we spent pre. Who knows. It is worth seeing if it is something that might change, meaning can I get what I want here. I have agreed to not discuss separation so much- meaning not the issues themselves more like not discussing how separation would work (even though I have known that is not wise to talk about this, I have found it kind of hard to leave it alone- Sometimes when something is in my head so much, it finds its way out of my mouth). But, overall we have been getting along a little better, the tension seems less in our house.
So this is all fine and good, but, at the same time, appears somewhat irrelevant. You see the truth is if this was solely about fixing our marriage, I think E and I stand a fighting chance. I do not think we now have or ever will have the perfect relationship, but I do think there is enough good stuff there to make it work. But, it is kind of beyond that. The future of our relationship hangs more on the ability of me to get (or more importantly not get pregnant) than anything else. That is the one thing that no matter how hard we (or I work) at changing, is largely out of our (my) hands.
The “I will 100% not do DE” is hard for me to understand. There is a tiny voice in my head that keeps telling me that E will change his mind, that maybe after yet another cycle or possibly that there is something I can do or say to make him open up more. I need to give that up, it is really hard, I do not know how to do that exactly. It is something I will work on getting through in my own therapy.
E did shed some more light on his understanding of this issue. He is clear that door is shut. He is also clear that this is not an easy decision for him and that it is that causes him much psychological pain. E says he views ending our marriage and DE as two evil choices, but that divorce somehow seems less evil because in DE he would forever be stuck with a choice that he never wanted in the first place (meaning stuck with a child that he never wanted). He also adds (what I talked about last time)- that divorce comes with it the possibility of a shot at what he really wants, which in this case is a child of both his and his partner’s biology. It is hard to not take that personally. E says it’s not me though, he would feel this way no matter who is partner is. He says that it is more about his feelings about DE than his feelings for me, the old it’s not you it’s me excuse (he did not actually say that old saying, but you see where I am coming from, right?). I asked E what he would do if he was the one that was infertile, he says he would not have children. Our therapist points out that his desire to have children is not as strong as mine, that at least I understand. However, at the same time, E still says he does want children- I guess not in the same, nothing else matters more, way as I do.
It is hard to write about this stuff because I know I am not really expressing a very popular point of view. It is hard for me to accept and understand E's stance because it stands at such opposition to how I feel. It almost starts to sound absurd to me, like you could not possibly believe that. But, absurd or not, it is how he feels. It is not my job anymore to convince him otherwise. I have gone that road one too many times, it is time for a new direction.
So where does that leave us? Well, there is still the option IVF #7. We were clear in session that if we do not do #7, that means separation, and if we do #7 and it fails, that means separation. This is not new, but it feels and sounds different when it is spelled out bluntly, in clear language, in front of somebody else (meaning the therapist). Our therapist seems to want to be optimistic about #7, I reminded her that no RE feels that way and that when I say 15% shot I am not being dramatic- that is legitimately what it is. E continues to feel unsure about doing #7, citing his fears that it will just be too stressful. I do not pretend to understand that, how is any of this not stressful. I am suspending this for now. We will discuss it at the next session. Once again, E continues to hold most of the power. Again, that is what it is, unless I am ready to give up now, which I am not, then I have to accept that. The one silver lining is that previously, I felt very attached to my frozen (but shitty) embryos. Now, that is less so. If they do not get used I can live with that.
So that is about my friends. Things continue to be hard, I think they will be for a while. I am doing surprisingly well all things considered. I am proud of myself for the new pool of resiliency that I have tapped into. I am reaching out more to people, turning down less invitations, and letting people love and support me more. The good news is that given the new, not exactly clarity, but more like clarifications that therapy has provided us, this can’t go on much longer. That might mean a few months, not a few weeks, but it still has an ending someplace.


<3
ReplyDeleteI'm glad you have tapped into that resilience pool, and that you are going out and doing things and allowing yourself to be supported by friends. Be good to yourself, C. Thinking of you...
Oh C :( You would not believe how much I want this story of yours to be unfolding differently. I want you and E on the same page, I want him to want your wants as much as you and I wish that you were not on opposite sides of the DE issue. It's a terrible awful thing, this slow dissolution of your marriage and my heart breaks for you.
ReplyDeletex
I am happy you are finding the sessions somewhat helpful. I can't begin to imagine the feelings you are having and the difficulty of making these decisions.
ReplyDeleteI do see E's view on DE, I don't agree and I hate it, but with having had these conversations (and adoption) with C and our therapist, they have similar views. C would rather though stay married without kids. Men's desire for kids overall is less than a women's which in this situation makes it difficult!
If IVF7 can help you both be happy together (when it works) then I say go for it! It will be tough. Tougher than the past with the extra stress but we will be here to lift you up and cheer you on!!!!
Thinking about you :)
This sounds like a good thing, having a third party help to sort things out. I so wish this weren't where you two found yourselves, but you're looking at the situation with clear eyes and I think that's all you can hope for. Sending you much love.
ReplyDeleteSending you love.
ReplyDeleteThinking of you and sending you love. I'm so, so sorry you are going through this.
ReplyDeleteJust like E wants a chance to have his own biological child with his partners genes, you could think about whether you want to have a child with a partner who is more open to the options available. It's unfair for Him to have the upper hand, it should be an even playing field. I would never be able to put up with what u r going thru and I admire your dedication and tenacity to sit thru these painful sessions.
ReplyDeleteWell poop. I wanted to challenge E and wonder if a second partner with perfect eggs failed to make a baby with him and he realized it was actually just as much HIS SPERM as your egg then how would he feel but I guess he answered that. Having children just isn't as important to him. While I can respect that I feel terrible for you. I do not like him having more power in this situation. I cannot even imagine doing a seventh cycle with the emotions you are both having. I guess the question is: if it works is all of this forgotten? Do you move forward without any of these conversations casting shadows on your future as a family?
ReplyDeleteYour tenacity is admirable. I'm hoping for some peaceful days ahead.
This is so unbelievably hard and I am so sorry you are having to deal with it all. It sounds like the therapist is good. Clarification is good too although I wish the things your getting clarification on were more what you were hoping. Much love from me to you. Hang in there as best you can.
ReplyDeleteSending love and empathy, my friend.
ReplyDeleteThese are not the best circumstances to try for yet another cycle... I'm sorry you have to go through this.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you. It's hard for me to understand the 100% no to DEs. But I suppose if that's what he's sticking to, then that's his right. And I also disagree with his statement about feelign this way with another partner. I think that's just too hard to say, and in some sense, irrelevant. Meaning, if he was with someone else, he would be a totally different person in different circumstances and so he really can't say that with certainty. He may believe it with certainty.. but.....
ReplyDeleteAnyways, I understand how hard it would be to accept his stance, but I'm glad that at least you guys are in therapy giving communication a try, for whatever that is worth.
So if you do IVF #7 and it fails -separation. If you don't do IVF #7 - separation. Is a successful IVF the bandaid that will keep you together? I think that is a ton of pressure.
Regardless, I can see how things are very hard right now for you and all I can keep doing is saying that I am still here, supporting you from afar.
I hate that this has put the burden on you and your ovaries. The weight of your marriage resting on this issue is unbelievable and unfair. It sounds like you've got a good therapist to help sort out whether this will work for both of you. The beauty of a relationship see-saw is that you are both up and down, when you are the one at the bottom all the time, it hardly feels like fun anymore.
ReplyDeleteYou are doing the right thing and surrounding yourself with friends who support you and listen is critical. The problem seems impossible, and the answer equally impossible. I trust that you will emerge in a better place even if it feels really far away at this point.
You handled the it's not you it's me bit bravely. I believe my head would have blown up and erupted in hot lava tongues felt for miles. You could replace lady liberty's torch with the image of my spitfire head. Arrgh.
I'm glad you are letting more people in to love and support you :)
ReplyDeleteI'm glad there is a well of strength and a group of solid people supporting you right now. What you are going through is impossibly hard. Your ability to view things so calmly and clearly is amazing.
ReplyDeleteI just don't understand the 100% NO DE. That would really hurt my feelings if my DH said things like that. :-( I'm so sorry. I am proud of you for being strong. I really look up to you and admire you. Sending love and hugs.
ReplyDeleteIf I may let my frustration with E's stance speak for a second:
ReplyDeleteIf it does come to separation, I'm envisioning an unbroken series of long, awkward silences after E explains to each potential new partner why you two split.
I'm so glad you're feeling better. I know there are brighter days ahead, i just hope they get here soon.
The thing that keeps swimming around in my mind when I read about your journey is how incredibly unfair it is that you have an unsupportive partner layered on what is already such a crappy hand to be dealt (infertility).
ReplyDeleteAlso how rare this is, at least from what I see on the blogs/IRL. We have male factor - & I know I can't understand the subtleties of someone else's experience/relationship - but I can't imagine putting my partner through the hell that E. is putting you through.
I also wonder if he just lacks the imagination as to how much he would likely love a DE child? (again, judging, sorry...).
I'm so sorry you've ended up in this awful situation. I also don't fully understand E's stance, and feel the frustration that you and other commenters feel. I'm glad you're reaching out and gathering up love and support. That's so important to do for yourself.
ReplyDeleteAs horrible as this situation is, I am thankful that you seem to be moving forward towards some kind of decision. I have been following you for a while and you have been stuck in the worst kind of rut for so long. At least this is PROGRESS. I am so, so sorry that E is still so adamant about the Donor Egg decision. It's really unfortunate, because I believe that once the child was born you would both love it as much as if it was your own DNA. I admire your strength and believe strongly that you will get through this and will be in a MUCH better place this time next year. Hang in there, we are all behind you!
ReplyDeleteMyTwoLines asks an important question, I think - if you were to do IVF#7 and get pregnant, would you really be able to move past all of this and move forward in your marriage and as a family? I know that assvice is probably the last thing you need, but I have to say, I just don't think I could. E's stance feels like such a betrayal, and I'm taking it extremely personally on your behalf!!
ReplyDeleteFrom the way you write about this, you (seem to be) a much stronger person that I. I admire you continuing to hang in there as much and as long as you have, BUT I am just so angry for you!!! I have really tried to see E's perspective, but it just seems so crappy and so terribly unfair - he still hasn't even given you any sort of reason as to why these other alternatives to building a family are so unpalatable to him, other than the childish wish that things could somehow be different. I want to slap him silly and tell him to grow the F--- up!!! I'm sorry, C, I know this rant is not really helpful to you. I just feel as though I know you from your blog, and think you are so smart, and caring, and mature, and wish for you a relationship that is your equal. I've really tried to give E the benefit of the doubt, but I am also increasingly worried he is not the partner you deserve. Did this man really experience the heartbreaking loss of Baby Hurricane with you? It sure doesn't seem like it.
Sending you much love and support as you figure out your next steps. There ARE brighter days ahead.
S
I am so sorry you are going through this. If you and your husband do separate, and there is any justice in the world, you will quickly meet a fabulous partner, and even more quickly have a healthy, happy pregnancy. It always infuriates me when one partner gets "blamed" for infertility, particularly when there is no very clearly identified cause. RE's (and their tests) don't know everything, and fertility is always a 50-50 equation. I so wish your partner was able to fully understand that. I think he will regret it if he loses your marriage, and you, over this.
ReplyDeleteIt's hard for me to understand E's stance, too, and I think it's such a testament to your strength of character that you are not wasting a bunch of time blaming him and hating him and whatever else *I'd* be doing... You are brave, you are strong, and you will find your way.
ReplyDeleteI can't imagine the position you're in....sending hugs and love...hoping you get through this difficult time...
ReplyDeleteI too was in a situation where we kept trying and I kept miscarrying. My husband always wanted to adopt and I wasn't there as I could get pregnant but not carry it. We had alot of struggles but finally I had to accept that whatever God's plan was for us, with or without children, I loved my husband first. We adopted a newborn baby boy two years ago and he is the most amazing child which we couldn't love more if he was our biological child, it took us 10 years before we had our son and together 13 years. But I wanted to say to you if your husband will not do DE at least he is being very honest. Having a child is the most difficult job you will ever do, harder than I ever imagined although the most rewarding. It puts alot of pressure on your relationships and a mother has to give up alot. I think sometimes we get so caught up in the infertility world and feel so bad about ourselves that we are failures and that we are unable to get pregnant and we want something so much but the reality is we end up losing so much - time, relationships and loving our partners. I think you just need to decide do you love each other and make your relationship a priority and not focus on the "baby". Everything will work out the way it is supposed to but I think your so caught up in what you cant have instead of focusing on all that you do have. I know that happenned to me and when I changed my whole view on our life and our situation we had so much happiness together and finally we ended up adopting. I wish your husband could understand that "biological" doesn't make a difference in the love you have for your child. I know this first hand. I really just think you need to decide if you want to be together and spend sometime focusing on rekindling your relationship first and then in time go back to if you want to try IVF again. 7 IVF's is alot for a women to go through especially the hormones and pressure on you, and I know how its is first hand. Take the pressure off and stop thinking it as failure, IVF is all scientific they are playing with your body and hormones and the success rates are not as high as they state they are. I hope you find your happiness back. You seem like a very nice couple who are stuck in this place where its all about a baby instead of loving each other and accepting what may or may not be. A child will not fix your marriage it will make it harder and you may end up splitting even if you do have a child if you dont fix your marriage first. Its not fair to bring a child into your marriage if you dont love and respect each other first and I cannot imaging having to raise a baby alone, it would be so hard on you and your anger will be so much worse towards him. I hope you can work it out and figure out if you really want to be together. Try to remember why you fell in love and are married, spend quality time together without talking about this day in and day out and the pressure will come off. Dont go on the internet so much because it always appears like the success rates are so high and only you are not getting pregnant, thats not the case. Smile again and everything will fall into place how it is meant to be. I think your anger isn't really for your husband its just about all the IVF's and wanting something so bad that isn't happening yet. Try and take the pressure off for awhile and I think you will find out what you really want and that your marriage is the main priority. I know he must love you because he is still there! all the best.
ReplyDeleteI take heart in some things you wrote here, CGD. First, I am reassured to read that there isn't as much tension in the house. That is a small, but sizeable gift. I also like that you think the therapist is a good one (and given your background, you must be picky about therapists - I know I am :) It's very helpful to really take out all the issues and put them on the table to look at them before you decide to make a move either way, either re-committing yourselves to your marriage or parting ways.
ReplyDeleteI felt more angry at E in this post than in others previous. I usually am able to remind myself that I really don't know the whole story of your situation, and I don't have the priviledge of E's position, except through what you write. And I usually am able to remind myself that you married for love, and that you still love this man very much. I just feel like the 'it's not you, it's me' part must be so hard to digest. I feel like I couldn't help but take it personally. I would find it hard to believe that he would feel the same with another partner in the same situation. Maybe he would, but that's easy to say and much harder to verify.
But that's just my reaction to what you wrote. Perhaps his clarification has helped you understand where he is coming from. Of course, it doesn't solve the issues, but a greater appreciation of where he is coming from in his categorical refusal of third party conception can help you decide what is next for you.
Please know that my thoughts are with you. Sending you warm hugs from Canada.
Like the others, I am glad that your home has less tension but I hate that you are going through this. An impartial third party is a great thing but you still have to move forward each and every day with E.
ReplyDeleteIt feels so unfair. What if the tables were turned? Would you want to seek a different partner so you can have a baby with both of your genes? I guess it isn't fair to think about that perspective since E is entitled to his opinion but....I can't help but think about it.
And like many others said, what if IVF #7 is a success, would your marital woes dissolve?
I hope these thoughts don't come off as obnoxious or judgmental, I am just trying to process the scenario.
Sending you love & strength.
Forgive me, but I'm not sure I see how E has all the power. He has said he doesn't want to do DE, adoption, etc..., and that he would rather stay married and kid-free with *you*. You have said that you want a child. Period. So, it seems to me that you actually have all the power. If his positions are so concrete (and they seem to be), then I think that you're the one with the choice: either stay or go. If you're not willing to budge (and I'm not suggesting you do one thing or another), then way drag this out? Why continue the back-and-forth? Why continue to put either one of you through this emotional turmoil?
ReplyDeleteI don't mean for this comment to sound harsh in any way. As an infertile as well, I am terribly sorry this is even a situation you find yourself in, and I can't imagine your pain. You and E both will continue to be in my thoughts.
Oh gosh C. I don't even know what to say. The situation that you are in is awful. The decisions that you are having to make is something that no one should have to go through. It hurts me when I hear you say that he would like to start over with someone more fertile. That must be incredibly hurtful for you. I can't pretend to understand his reasoning. Yes, I know that he has a right to feel the way that he does about biological children, but I still don't understand it. And I don't understand why he won't give you what you so desperately want.
ReplyDeleteI will say that I have seen you grow and you seem very strong. I know it's a hard road. I think about you a lot.
I just wanted to add my 2 cents since infertility and IVF also took a huge toll on my marriage and because I was once in your husband's shoes. I was the one who didn't want DE and rather be child-free. My husband was opposed to adoption. It may help if you pass my feelings to your husband since I felt exactly like he did. I was opposed because I felt cheated about not being the biological parent; in his case, at least he would still be the biological father. That is hugely important because he will get to see his family, his genes, in his offspring. You're the one who would miss out on this; however, I changed my mind because I felt that 50% of our genes was still good AND I would carry the baby and experience pregnancy. It was strange to search for a donor, like finding a woman for your husband (!) but believe me, once the process is over and especially if you succeed, you will be grateful for this donor but you will sometimes forget that you're not even the biological mom! Donor eggs increase the chances of success and while it still doesn't guarantee a child, it's the best of a tough situation. 50% of one parent plus the woman can experience pregnancy and childbirth (and breastfeeding). I hope that my words can help since I was on E.'s side for a while. I can't believe I contemplated child-free OVER donor egg because my children are my life and little miracles. best of luck.
ReplyDeletewhat if you try DE and it doesnt work? then you would have given up on E for no reason. he wants to be with you more than he wants children... but you dont want to be with him... so why dont you leave him to pursue DE or adoption? you have all the power. (he seems to love you more than you love him.)
ReplyDeleteI'm so sorry you are going through all of this. Infertility makes marriage 100 times more difficult.
ReplyDeleteKeeping you in my thoughts.