I have been struggling with my blog lately and feel unsure about what I have to say. I have been having some trouble with other blogs too, both with reading and commenting (although I do read more than I comment). Please know that even when you do not hear from me, you remain in my thoughts all the time.
My standstill with E still persists. Because of this I feel as if I am slowly losing my mind or something like that. It is hard, really hard. Just to give you an explanation of what I am dealing with, this is essentially the way it goes: I usually bring up the topic, E lets me know he is still against DE (we are talking DE at this point b/c I feel like if there is little chance he would ever do DE, there is virtually no chance that he would ever want to adopt). Because of the utter feelings of desperation when I hear this news, I start to ask inane questions like “is there any chance you might change your mind, what percentage of chance is there?” Yes, I ask for an actual quantity. Why? I don’t know, I feel desperation, when you are desperate you do some not so logical things. E tells me that the chance he will ever change his mind is slim (like really slim, like 1% slim- yes, I made that stat up myself but I think I am pretty on target, E has confirmed that this about right). He says he is not ready to say that this is his final answer yet, but right now nothing has changed. In reality, nothing has changed in 2 years when we first started to talk about this. I sometimes ask him why he is still here, why he has not just left me already. He tells me that he hasn’t left because he loves me. Cue tears. Emotional purgatory.
I ask E for explanations as to why DE is so not ok with him. He answers that question, but even when I try to recreate his answers, I still feel unclear. He says things like DE feels like he is having a baby with a stranger, that he thinks he will conjure thoughts of this donor every time he looks at his child, that he will resent me forever for making him do something he really doesn’t want to do.
Things are really hard. All roads somehow lead back to this issue. Do I resign my office lease? Well, what if I need to leave my job for a position with better hours and benefits like health insurance when/if I become a single mother. Do we take a vacation? Well, says E, we need to figure this out first so we don’t spend the entire time talking about this issue. Do we book tickets to visit E’s family in FL? Well, what if we book tickets and then are not even together at that point. I imagine I do not have to tell you how hard living like this is. It is hell, pure hell.
I have several calls to couples therapist. I found one yesterday who I think I loved and we are trying to get in to see her next week. She is an IF expert. I need her to save us.
The other day, I told E that I am NOT divorcing him (or allowing him to divorce me) and I am not living child free. That means he has no choice but to do this. I said to him that he needs to act like a used car sales man “how do I get you in this car” with himself- “how do I get myself comfortable with DE”. Historically, I think he has been working on validating why it is ok not to want to do it. Of course it is ‘ok’ not to do DE, but not if you want to stay married. Get yourself in that car, E, you have no choice. As I said before, desperation makes you do crazy things.
So that is it for now, I have more to say but feel kind of tapped out. Thank you for being so understanding about me going MIA from time to time. I am always holding out hope for those of you still in the trenches and sending everyone much love.


Oh dear C. I wish the world had been kinder to you. I wish things were different. I wish you weren't in purgatory :( I hope you don't have to completely choose between E and motherhood.
ReplyDeleteThis situation is so sad and I wishh it wasn't so.
love and hugs
Like Pundelina, I just wish it could be different. As if flipping a switch could make a completely different reality. I am ecstatic though that you are going to do couples therapy (his therapist sounded like an ass). I want someone I'm your corner and while I know that a good therapist is going to balance both your needs, I feel like the situation has been dragged largely to E's side: he doesn't want... He's not comfortable with... Rightnow he holds the power.
ReplyDeleteAnd you are the one who has put your body through these cycles. You both lost Baby H but you are the one who had that physical connection. And you're the one who lost him physically. I can't help but feel that couples therapy will give him a little perspective on this. Will make him understand that one part of love is to examine our "principles' and to realize that there has to be some give. There has to be.
(in terms of the commenting/reading/writing, do not expend one iota of energy to thinking or worrying about it. We here in blogland are rooting for you full throttle. But sometimes a hiatus is what you need to do for your heart and mind. Right now your task us just to get through. And it's a big one. Hugs,C).
Oh my goodness, I cannot even imagine the hell that you are going through :-( Ugh, it breaks my heart. I've been thinking of you a lot and hoping things improve. I really hope E finds a way to compromise. That's what couples have to do. I pray the counselor helps. I'll be thinking of you...hugs.
ReplyDeleteThinking of you so much during this time. I am so happy you're finding a couples therapist. It's obviously not a silver bullet but it really sounds like you could use some help trying to understand each other. It's so hard when you feel like your back is up against a wall. I so hope you can come to some agreement about DE with E. and I know it's painful and exhausting to think about but I also don't think going the DE route is mutually exclusive with continuing to try with your own eggs. I know it's frightening to think about another situation like baby H but as hard as it is to believe ( and believe me I thought we were doomed to only trisomy 18 babies after our horrendous experience) there is a good chance it won't happen again. Its hard to think about taking the risk with your own eggs again but maybe it would help you feel like DE wasn't your only way out. I don't want to give to give you false hope, but, like us, you know you can get pregnant on your own (if infrequently) and while it might never happen it also just might. I'm proof of that - and at an older age than you :-/ To me that doesn't mean stopping trying to get E to go down the DE path at the same time too. Best to have all options you can manage to get on the table open to you. Hope this isn't too much unsolicited opinion from me but I so hate to see you suffering this much. Whatever you decide, take good care of yourself.
ReplyDeleteI am sorry you are in this situation. I feel a lot of empahty because I have been in the place you are at right now. I am glad you are going to therapy. I wish you all the best.
ReplyDeleteUgh I'm so sorry you are still stuck. Couples counselors can really help, I'm really glad she specializes in IF. Many warm thoughts and hugs to you my dear.
ReplyDeleteThinking of you and hoping you guys can come to some sort of agreement. I agree with the above poster that E is holding a lot of the power right now and that's what happens when one is unwilling to compromise. I know I had some misgivings about Donor egg for the same reasons he named which is part of the reason we went with adoption/ donor embryos. In other words "it's all our DNA or it's not at all" and that helped me. Not to say this will work for him, but to say there can be a middle ground. I am so sorry you are purgatory, this sounds like hell.
ReplyDeleteI'm so sorry you are still in this horrible situation. It must be very painful and wearing. I hope hope hope that this counselor helps you and E get through this. It's not good for either of you to remain in this state. Take care of yourself during this time, and know you are not alone! We are behind you...
ReplyDeleteFeel free to punch me in the mouth for saying this, as it's really none of my business etc. But do you ever feel like E might be trying to manipulate the DE egg situation? I'm just wandering if he really has decided in his heart and mind that he'd NEVER do donor egg. But by giving you that 1% chance that he MIGHT change his mind...it leaves you hanging on to that hope. And it saves him from having to leave you (because he does love you) and doesn't want o get divorced. But I wonder if this is his way of keeping you guys together and not losing you by giving you a false hope? I mean what do I know, maybe he really does have a 1% chance of changing his mind. But I think if you are both desperate to hang on...he's gonna keep that 1% alive and your going to believe it. I miss "seeing" you around these blog parts :) I really hope for peace and happiness and some answers for you! You deserve to have a child. Sounds like you guys may have found a great counselor?! That's good! :) xo
ReplyDeleteI'm so sorry things are so hard right now. I don't think you are soliciting advice, so I will offer none. But I offer giant parenthetical ((((((((HUGS))))))))))))).
ReplyDeleteC, it's good to "hear" from you. I'm sorry you are still in "emotional purgatory" (great turn of phrase, btw).
ReplyDeleteI think of you often and hope for some resolution for you.
I think you have to be willing to compromise, too. you need to give child-free living a chance. take a long, true break from "trying" and see if you can handle child-free for a year, and then maybe you will find it is okay.
ReplyDeleteI was hell bent that I would not live child free either. Thankfully J caved. He'd rather save our marriage & adopt than lose me. There was no chance under the sun that I would've ever been 'ok' with not being a mom. I hope your new counselor will be able to help you both. I hate this for you, I really do. Love, hugs & thoughts are always with you.
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry that you're stuck in emotional purgatory. I can't even imagine the pain you must be feeling.
ReplyDeleteI have no advice but want to offer my virtual support and hugs!!
I am so sorry things are like this for you.
ReplyDeleteOh my dear, I wish so much this wasn't happening to you. I went through such familiar scenes with A that I can try and imagine how awful it is for you.
ReplyDeleteI have nothing wise to say, just know we are all here for you if you need us.
Many virtual hugs, my friend.
I am so sorry that you and E are stuck in this place. It sounds so incredibly hard. I really hope this new councilor is able to help you find a direction to move forward in. (((Hugs)))
ReplyDeleteyour questions to E, completely normal. i, too, would be asking for percentages and probabilities. i hate that this is happening to you. i just want E to wake up one day and *voila*, he's come around. hoping and praying that WORST case, if you do tell him you have to leave, that THAT action in itself is what makes him turn around and change his mind. sending you many many hugs. xoxoo.
ReplyDeleteSo undescribably hard. I think your questions to E are good ones, for what it's worth and are what any one (or at least any psychologist spouse) would ask : )
ReplyDeleteDo you guys know any folks who have done DE (or donor sperm for that matter)? Has he ever talked to another man about this who was in this position? I know that for myself, all these ideas in the abstract completely stink but when I see a particular situation, usually I see that - oh wow - what a lovely family, what a beautiful child - and it suddenly doesn't seem so strange or foreign.
I like your car metaphor - and think that is probably a good way for you to think too. How can you and E help E to be able to at least really explore the option thoroughly rather than reject it out of hand. Walk through some of it, go for a test drive, so to speak.
Also - one rec for a therapist if you haven't landed on one already - we saw Shelley Lee (only once but she made an impression) who is an IF expert. She was top-shelf - very bright, kept us on track, very smart, and very focused on Will and making sure to help him be ok with everything.
Thinking of you.
Mo
I get his point of view. I do. Here I am - 15 weeks pregnant and I'd be lying if I didn't say I never thought about our donor and sat and wondered if I'm going to question if the kid does something that I don't understand where it's coming from. It hurts when people say - with parents like you two - your kid is going to be beautiful. BUT - at the end of the day - A was willing to give up all of his dna - just like you are - to have our child - the only way we could. It took me a long time to be ok with it - to move forward with it - having our first donor "retire" was the best thing that happened - it forced me to see what mattered. we all have a vision of what we think the perfect thing is when really - at the end of the day - there is no perfect. I hope E gets there - please know I'm always willing to talk to him if he wants a donor prospective.
ReplyDeleteMy heart breaks for you reading this. I really hope you get both your marriage and your baby. Praying so hard for that.
ReplyDeleteI echo the wish that this whole fork in the road would have been spared. Being committed to making a path together is tremendous. I also know that each of those conversations are on the razor's edge of having each of you firmly on different sides. 1% is better than zero, and if there is even the tiniest ray of hope, I will continue to nurture it here. To go through this much and be stranded apart is too much.
ReplyDeleteLike Adele said, we are here to chat you up whether you are commenting or not. And turning on support when things are rough takes the strength of super beings. My thoughts are with you both.
Oh man, that sounds so hard. All paths do lead back to this.
ReplyDeleteSorry this is happening like this for you, and sending love
Get in the car, E!! Please!
ReplyDeleteI think of you often. I am praying for a happy resolution to this heartbreak.
E, I am so sorry. I have to say my post today was in relation to your comment the other day. I know how badly you are hurting right now and the fact you actually read/supported me during this time I know was hard. Everything is hard right now!
ReplyDeleteI do think of you often and pray that something wonderful is coming your way (wrapped in a blanket, that needs a bottle/or boob, cries and gets all the love you have to offer). C, when it comes down to it, is the same way with adoption. He says 'ok' sometimes, but down deep I think it is just to appease me and shut me up. If it comes down to being our only option, I fear I will be in the same exact situation you are in, DE's are not an option for us bc they don't think they will help.
I wish life wasn't this unfair. I wish the ones that deserve a child got one and the ones that don't or don't even want them didn't get them. Why are things so damn backward?
Please know that I am here if you need to scream, cry or whatever. If you aren't around, I will take no offense. Sometimes we just need to hide. BUT I am here. Thinking and praying and hoping for you! xoxoxo
Oh C, I cannot even begin to imagine the stress you are living with right now. I wish I had wise words for you my friend. If I could shoulder some of your pain, I would. You DESERVE to be a mom.
ReplyDeleteHugs, and know that I think of you often.
oh honey, this sounds like hell. You are doing amazing to just get up and go to work each day, to make breakfast, to comb your hair. You are doing amazing, considering what is going on. I just wish E would just wake up and get in the car, by whatever way he needs to.
ReplyDeleteYou remain in my thoughts daily. I know that this is a very difficult time and I keep thinking of you carrying on through your days and I send you light (any little light I have left in me, it's all yours, dear woman).
I'll be thinking of you while you go through this. I really hope that he's a great used car salesman and can sell himself on the idea soon. In the meantime I send you strength, hope, and happiness.
ReplyDeleteHell. pure hell. I'm so sorry, C. I like the note you ended this on and I'm proud of you for fighting so hard for both of the things you love / need in your life: your marriage and your future child. hoping that E comes around very soon. (((hugs)))
ReplyDeleteFirst, I want to say that I am very sorry that you are going through this emotional torture. No one should have to endure this. This is the very cruel reality of IF, and how it can test a couple to the limit.
ReplyDeleteHOWEVER, and please forgive me if my opinion offends you in any way, as I am only sharing what I would say to my closest friends and family...I can't help but feel that it is through these tests life places before us we learn the real truth about our relationship and our partners. The hard times challenge us to live up to those values that we vowed to each other at the altar: in sickness and in health...
Infertlity is a sickness, it is a health issue, and medicine and society has solutions to help us reach the goal which is having a family: IF treatments, DE, and adoption.
I cannot help but feel that E is not living up to those vows. He is not supporting your family during this health challenge. Would he have such a strong and inflexible stand towards other treatments for other health issues?
If the answer is NO, then I would think that he is being unfair to you both. And if the answer is YES, then the question of whether E's harsh stand on these life choices is suited to yours.
I really do wish for you that this counselor can help you come to common ground. I wish you the best of luck with this. I hope the counselor can open E's eyes to the joy that a child can bring to his life, no matter how that child comes into your life. Millions of couples around the world live perfectly happy lives as a family through adoption. I hope that he can get over the mental hurdle that biology is the only thing that matters.
Take care of yourself.
Oh C,
ReplyDeleteI am so sorry that you are feeling so stuck, I wish I could take your pain away and give you what you are wishing for. It is so unfair.
I wish that E was willing to compromise and try to meet you halfway. You are in my thoughts.
xoxox
Who the hell isthissusanchic above!? Ignore her comment. YOU are already compromising by taking a break, offering adoption, donor eggs ... yOU should not have to decide to live child free. We all deserve to be moms, if we so want. Getting there is a mofo for some, unfortunately. You shouldn't have to *try* tocomearound on living child free. Ugh.
ReplyDeleteGiven the nature of E's concerns about DE, if you are willing, perhaps you SHOULD start discussing adoption. It sounds as though what is bothering him most is the "weird" factor, that he would be "having" a child with someone else. (I know, I know, many people's experiences with DE suggest that it wouldn't feel like that at all once you actually experience it, but I can imagine that's not an uncommon concern for the male - or female, in the case of sperm donation - partner to have. In a strange way, perhaps this is even a reflection of how much he really loves you - he just can't imagine reproducing with anyone else!) Adopting may feel very different to him, as it is making a home for a baby or child that is already here, in the world, and needs one. I may be totally off-base here, but it was a thought that kept coming to me as I read your post.
ReplyDeleteSo sorry for the terrible position you are in, and sending you lots of good thoughts and well wishes. Despite all the struggle, it really sounds as though you and E love each other SO much, so I am really rooting for you to find a way through this! And soon!
Laura (fellow psychologist, long-time reader, first time commenter)
Good to hear from you sweetie. I think about you often. I hope the new therapist helps and you find the answers you need.
ReplyDeleteI have no words of wisdom, really hoping the couples therapist can help you break this stronghold and make progress! Sending love!
ReplyDeleteEven when things haven't changed, I'm always glad to see your posts and to know that you're continuing to cope with this terrible situation. I'm rooting so hard for you.
ReplyDeleteThere's a lot of research in social science about how power works when opposite-sex couples make decisions. One persistent finding is that most men assume the right to put their foot down, to exercise veto power. Even liberal minded men tend to take this right as so axiomatic that they never question its fairness. Most women don't think like that -- they're consensus-minded. It creates a fundamental power imbalance, and men have a hard time seeing that.
It may be a small comfort to know that E's intransigence certainly isn't unique to his personality. Under the right (or more appropriately, WRONG) circumstances, almost any of us could be in your shoes.
I think you have to plan for the reality that you're living in right now... not what might be someday. Regardless of the outcome, it's going to be a long road getting there. (I won't even go into how much you don't deserve any of this bull shit.)
ReplyDeleteI DO think you SHOULD take a vacation and it should NOT be with E's family. GO TO A BEACH. Seriously. You deserve the hell out of that. Even better, come meet me in London next time I go!!
I check your blog often to see how you're doing so even though you don't feel like you may have much to update us on, thank you for still posting & letting me and your readers know how you're doing.
ReplyDeleteI know Couples Counseling has no guarantees but I'm still so glad you're going. It's an objective party that can offer guidance or insight. Abd who knows? Maybe this counselor will offer some direction that will help one of you or both of you. Maybe they will facilitate an extra productive conversation. The thing is that you're going and hoping it'll help and that's what I also wish for both of you - that it will help.
Finally, I'll say this: I have had the honor & pleasure of knowing you personally. You are my friend in real life & I want to say "publicly" here on your blog that I know what a special, funny, good hearted person you are. I don't know what the future holds but I do know I'm always here for you & I only want whatever will make you happy. I think of you every single day my friend. I love you & support you no matter what.
C- my heart breaks reading this. You are in such a difficult situation. Sending you love...
ReplyDeleteThis sounds so sad and stressful... and also familiar. I do hope you don't lose E. You've been through so much loss, you dont need any more things missing in your life.
ReplyDeleteI'm so sorry, C. THINGS CAN'T STAY LIKE THIS FOREVER. What ever lies ahead for you, I hope that it presents itself SOON. You and E both deserve to get out of Purgatory. I hope that new therapist helps you make your escape from this rotten situation.
ReplyDeleteI'm not a great commenter but I think of you often. I'm still holding on to hope that you can get everything you want - your marriage and a child. I hope the therapist can help you. Sending hugs.
ReplyDeleteI'm always here for you, even if you are silent. I hope that some couples therapy will help you both to find some common ground. Sending you hugs and strength.
ReplyDeleteI can no way be as prolific and wise as all of the wonderful people who have commented have been. I can only tell you that my greatest wish is for you and E to come out of this together. I hope that couples' therapy helps E get through this "block" that's keep him from being open to alternatives. You deserve to be a mother, but more importantly, you deserve to be a family, with your husband by your side. Always thinking of you and sending you hugs.
ReplyDeleteThinking of you. Wanted to stop by and say hi. Hope you're doing ok.
ReplyDeleteMy hope for you is that clarity comes to your husband, sure and strong and that you can move forward. My husband said that he would NEVER do IVF or adoption, but after we had them (a miracle I thank the universe for every day) he commented that now that he KNOWS what he would have been "missing" he would go full out and do WHATEVER it took to become a parent. I hope you don't have the "banging your head against the wall" trying to make him see feeling for too long. Hugs to you, my friend.
ReplyDelete